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Taking Stock | Interview with William Knowles-Mofford

It’s not hard to attract a hip crowd when you run a cocktail bar in one of London’s party hot-spots, but what happens when those crowds are ordered to stay at home?

In this week’s Taking Stock vodcast, I spoke to William Knowles-Mofford, Founder of Looking Glass Cocktail Club, about his journey from dropping out of Goldsmiths to owning one of Shoreditch’s trendiest bars. Life may have dealt him lock-down, but he’s making cocktails, selling them online and delivering them personally, to keep his business alive.

Follow William on Instagram.

TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW

Anil Stocker:

So hello everyone, and welcome to the MarketFinance vodcast series called Taking Stock. I’m Anil Stocker. I founded a Fintech called MarketFinance back in 2011, which delivers finance to ambitious business leaders and entrepreneurs. One thing I really love about my job at MarketFinance is the variety of business owners and entrepreneurs I get to meet and hear about their journey, and we often bring these stories to life with fireside chats at our office in Shoreditch on a Friday night with beers, in front of our team and guests. But now, undeterred by COVID-19, I’m taking these vodcasts online to showcase how business owners are doing it, the challenges they’re facing right now, how they think, the solutions, and much more. So let’s get into the action. And our guest today is Will Knowles-Mofford, who is a founder and director at Looking Glass Cocktail Club in Shoreditch. Hi Will. Welcome to the show.

William Knowles-Mofford:

Hey Anil, thanks for having me.

Anil Stocker:

So Will, you run two of the very successful bars in Shoreditch. Tell me, how did you get into that work? Is that what you’ve been doing for a while? How’d you get into?

William Knowles-Mofford:

That’s a very kind summary. Thank you. Yeah, I’d say … I was at university. I went to university in London. I went to Goldsmiths. I was doing a social anthropology degree, really, for lack of a better idea. I subsequently … I was about, just turned 19 years old, and I was traipsing through the streets of Shoreditch with CVs in my hand, looking for sort of a bar job to pay my way through university. It was a three year degree. So naturally I needed to … I lived away from home, so had to sort of fund myself. And I really oddly ended up bumping into a guy, who’s now probably the biggest player in Shoreditch, and one of the biggest players in London, the nightlife scene. And we, I think he was … I was 19, he was 26 at the time, super young entrepreneur.

William Knowles-Mofford:

And he … we sort of got chatting on the road about something odd that had just happened. And we sort of stood outside this nightclub. It was one of the biggest nightclubs in Shoreditch. And he looked at me and said, “Have you got CVs in your hands?” And I said, “Yeah.” And he said, “Well, I’ve just bought this club,” and sort of raised his arm up to this enormous, great big, this nightclub that was there, and said, “Well, I’ve just bought this place. Would you like to come and work for me?” And I went, “Yeah, sure.” So-

Anil Stocker:

He gave you a job there on the spot?

William Knowles-Mofford:

Yeah, no, it wasn’t like a … it wasn’t a crazy job. I started on the bar, and then I was a bouncer, I moved to the door. I did that for a little while in the same nightclub. And then I ended up sort of climbing further and further up, and sort of working more directly with the owner of the club. This is over a span of three years in total, so bish bash bosh. It was a slow, it was a steady grow. And we ended … I ended up being the manager of the club, all the while I’m still doing my degree. So I’m still at university in the day. And I sort of just found myself drifting away from academia, and sort of just enthralled by the nightlife scene. And it was just, I mean, like as a 19 year old boy, so through to 20, 19, 20, 21, having various roles within this great, big, exciting, dynamic nightlife environment, definitely at the epicenter of Shoreditch at the time, though now it’s changed significantly. That sort of epicenter doesn’t exist in the same way anymore, but it did. And that’s where-

Anil Stocker:

What was the bar called? Is it still around, or it’s gone?

William Knowles-Mofford:

Do you know the one?

Anil Stocker:

Which one?

William Knowles-Mofford:

Cargo.

Anil Stocker:

Cargo. Yes. Cargo, very well known. Yeah.

William Knowles-Mofford:

It’s a thousand capacity nightclub. It’s very different now. It used to, when I was running it, it was really, really, really different, but Shoreditch was different. Right? It’s all gone through catastrophic changes of late, which has sort of given birth to what we know now as the night-time scene. I don’t know how long you’ve been kicking around the streets of Shoreditch, but for me, it’s pushing 13, 14 years, and I’ve seen it sort of change in that time, but that’s what really got me, was sort of the excitement, the nightlife, and the sort of, the prospect of making money in an environment that was so exciting.

Anil Stocker:

Okay. So you were working for this guy at Cargo, you rose up through the ranks. So then when did you decide to go out on your own and create your own bars?

William Knowles-Mofford:

I think when I realized that it wasn’t … that it could be done. I sort of watched how my boss did it, and I, on a sort of a smaller level, looked at opportunities in the area. The area was going through enormous change. When I was looking to acquire, Shoreditch has been through so many different sets of hands. You’re going to see my cat’s head pop up in a second. He’s interested in the Zoom call. There we go. So it was going through, it’s gone through a few different hands. It’s … and at the time it was all sort of changing hands. The clubs were being sold. New operators were coming in. Spaces were being developed, not such an easy thing either, because by the time my time had rolled around, the licensing sphere had got super tough, because Hackney exploded in terms of a night-time economy.

William Knowles-Mofford:

The authorities had no idea what to do with it, because at one point it was a deprived borough with a large unemployment rate. And all of a sudden the night-time economy came in and became popular. And people diverted from the West End over to Shoreditch, which then of course the police went, “Well, this is an enormous problem,” because they’ve not counted for it. Boroughs at Westminster knew how to handle antisocial behaviour, people pouring onto the streets, loud music, and that made it very, very difficult. But I watched what my boss was doing, and I watched, and on a smaller scale, I sort of looked to replicate a venture. And I started looking at buildings that had just changed hands. Maybe they’d been previously handbag shops, small hairdressing salons, or large hairdressing salons, or any sort of business, which … the rents in Shoreditch have risen so much that the original model didn’t support having a building.

Anil Stocker:

Yep.

William Knowles-Mofford:

They moved out, gave way for opportunity. So I started looking around, and I found … I honestly, I found nowhere. It took me two years to nail down my spot, which is now Looking Glass. Took me two years to get that. But there’s actually a good story, because after not being able to find anything in Shoreditch for such a long time, I started to expand where I … my horizon, where I was looking. I pushed the border of where I’d go and trade. And that pushed up to Dalston. And I found a bar which was actually going into administration. It was going bust, and the administrators were auctioning bits and bobs off. And I offered to come and take the lease, because it was super cheap. I couldn’t afford anything at the time. I had no money, but I offered to take this lease on.

William Knowles-Mofford:

And it was a humongous risk, because if it continued and actually … it would have gone. That would have been the end of me, but I managed to get it and do some small renovations to it. I got it going, and really oddly, about … it’s about three, four months after I’d sort of turned the corner at that venue, and sort of got into a point where I was happy with how it was trading, it was no longer going down the pan, I found the building that Looking Glass is now in. And that presented me with an enormous problem, because I wanted to be in Shoreditch so much, because it’s the heart of nightlife in London. I said, “Okay.” I looked at it again and went, “Okay, can I do this? I’ve just spent all of my money on this other bar, and how the hell am I going to do this?” I said, “Do you know what? I’m going to go ahead anyway. I’m going to go and proceed acquiring the lease in Shoreditch.” Now that required me to sell my other venue-

Anil Stocker:

Wow.

William Knowles-Mofford:

Yeah. Which, and I had to do it quickly. So in the end, I managed to find a buyer, and I managed to exchange contracts on selling my other place in a terrible … for the area that it was in, it was a down market. It wasn’t an up market. So finding someone to sell to was a real thing. And I managed to exchange contracts on selling my other place one day before I had to exchange contracts on the new space. So that was a real moment of, “Oh, Jesus, is this going to happen? Or is this all going to go to hell?”

Anil Stocker:

It sounds like you found a really good place, and you took a big risk in trying to go and get it. And kind of what … tell me some of the highlights of running these bars in Shoreditch, then. What kind of events have you … what are the standout events that you’ve done? And because you do a lot of private events as well.

William Knowles-Mofford:

Yeah, we do all sorts of different events. I mean, we, yeah, of course we do the high rolling. We do things, like we’ve done events for Cartier. We’ve done things for Facebook. We’ve done events for Nike. We launched a new trainer in one of our venues, Iron Bloom, which is … we have two venues. We have a cocktail club called Looking Glass, and we have an event space called Iron Bloom. And between the two, we’ve had some enormous, enormous really sort of successful, prosperous companies doing various brand activations, product launches, parties. But we do like to keep it real, too. I do. I love having independent house music nights. I love having sort of smaller companies that are really trying to achieve something cool come in. And yeah, they get a better deal than the massive corporates, because at the end of the day I do want to support interesting individual people who are there trying to do something a little bit different from the norm.

William Knowles-Mofford:

And yes, it’s a real mix, a real mix. We’ve done fashion shows, and we’ve also done charity balls, but I’d say what excites me the most is when you sort of hook on to really sort of talented … so okay. I knew these two guys called Evan and Ross. We ran a party called Bittermens. And that was a sort of a brand which incubates at Looking Glass. Then we ended up moving it off because it had … we started it there, and we sort of grew as a three, and we used my venue production, et cetera, and their sort of … and they were sort of the artistic pole. They had the DJs, they did the graphic design, they did all sorts of … and we co-promoted. And that was a really nice thing to see from … to go from nothing, to then go to a point where we actually had to move it out of my venue because it wasn’t big enough. My venue is 250 capacity. We ended up taking a 500 capacity venue and renting it to do our next series of nights, because it had got so big. So I’d say that was probably what was the most thrilling recently.

Anil Stocker:

So how many people work for you? Or do you work with a lot of part-time staff, or who’s in the core team?

William Knowles-Mofford:

I have 20 full-time staff. No, sorry, 15 full-time staff, and I have 20, including contractors, like security, et cetera.

Anil Stocker:

Wow.

William Knowles-Mofford:

Some extra like the security, but I have 15 staff.

Anil Stocker:

Wow. That’s so, okay. So that’s quite a big team. That’s 15 people full-time. So then so … and two venues. So tell me then, let’s … so we wind back seven weeks, Boris Johnson’s on TV and is telling the country about lockdown, and bars and pubs need to shut. What went through your mind right at that moment?

William Knowles-Mofford:

Okay. Well it wasn’t shock. There was no feeling of shock. There was no, oh my God. I mean, if I … I mean the lockdown really had started several weeks before. That Friday was, yes, it was the official sign-off, but really all of this was sort of happening at least a month, or we were seeing signs of it six weeks before all of this. We were seeing business tailing off. We were seeing people not wanting to be out in public. We were seeing, not massively. And there were still some great nights, between when we started to have concerns about business to that Friday, there were some fantastic evenings, really busy, really great events, but it was definitely tailing off. And there was a feeling of real uncertainty. For example, furlough hadn’t been invented. I’ve got 15 staff, 20, the contractors, their company are responsible for them, but I’m responsible personally, financially for 15 others.

William Knowles-Mofford:

So there was going through my mind, “Well, how am I going to keep all these people on?” And you know, most of my staff are young guys, young male bartenders, that will come from Italy, Spain. And you know, generally the ages are between, crazily, 21 and 30. I’m actually the oldest person in the company at the moment, which is … and I’m 30 years old, which is crazy. So it’s a really young company, and a lot of the guys, they’re living over in London, away from their families, away from their big support networks. You know, some of them might have good friendship circles here, but not all of them. And so there was a massive feeling of responsibility on my part, which because I’m kind of, I’m responsible for these guys. What’s going to happen? And what we ended up doing, I ended up getting everyone into a meeting … but also, I mean, don’t forget, as you know, I have responsibility to my company. I can’t let it go under for the sake of paying wages for people not really working.

William Knowles-Mofford:

So I’m really, really caught here. And I ended up sitting all my guys down and saying, “Listen, we’ve got two options. Either you can take voluntary leave. Or what we can do is we can open the doors of the bar. We can work. And we know that trade is going to be 80% down. That’s eight zero percent down. And what we’ll do is what comes in we’ll split. So whatever came in, I agreed to split between them. Because I knew that I was going to have to go and have a row with my landlords, both of them. I knew I would have to do all of that. So I wasn’t thinking, “Oh no, I need to put money away from rent.” I knew the rent, which is a huge factor, and all my bills, would be kicked down the road. So my main priority at the time was sort of making sure I could retain my staff, and I could upkeep my responsibility to them. So I said, whatever came in, I would split between you, but I can’t guarantee anything. I can’t guarantee your usual salaries. Hopefully I can get you what you usually have, but it’s not guaranteed. So it’s either that, or we can sort of take a voluntary break for a while. And everyone-

Anil Stocker:

Before that, did you not look at the furlough scheme?

William Knowles-Mofford:

Furlough scheme hadn’t been invented yet.

Anil Stocker:

Okay. Oh, so this was before. Okay.

William Knowles-Mofford:

Yeah, this is when we weren’t locked, but we were … but that everything had gone, like it had just gone so quiet. Streets were emptier, every … it was the chatter.

Anil Stocker:

Okay. Okay. So you renegotiated almost before the lockdown, and you did this, whatever we make we share, while you went and spoke to the landlord to try and get a deal on the rent.

William Knowles-Mofford:

Furlough had not been invented, like I say, at the time. I think there were staff very happy with what we were suggesting, because at the time all their friends were just being laid off. And in many cases, some of their friends were laid off. And then as soon as furlough was invented, they were rehired. You know, so … but my sort of message was clear from the beginning. And I think they were very, very happy to receive an offer. And so we went for it. And then a day later we were shut down. Or no, I think it was two days. I think that was on a Wednesday. And then on the Friday, yeah, we had our last night on Thursday, which is a very, very … it was a crazy night, because I kind of had a feeling we were going to get shut down. So I put out a lot of promo and said, “Hey, last night, you know, let’s have a party,” and it actually really worked. We had friends, I had friends that hadn’t been in that venue for years coming in, and you know-

Anil Stocker:

Before total lockdown. So with total lockdown, though, your footfall must have gone to zero, right? There was nothing with the lockdown. No one could come in anymore.

William Knowles-Mofford:

With the … yes, of course. With the lockdown, we weren’t allowed to open our doors. At first, we were allowed to open for sort of takeaway purposes, but then enforcement revised that locally. And in the end we could only … we couldn’t open at all. So we had to close both of our venues. Which is, of course, as you can imagine, it was just a total … just a really hard and unusual place to be for me.

Anil Stocker:

Yeah. So what have you been doing? How have you been … what’s the reaction been from you?

William Knowles-Mofford:

Okay. So the first few days, drank a lot. And thought, I tell you what, I can make this better, and drank a lot. And then after that, sort of said, “Okay, right. How are we going to get through this? This might not be a short-term thing. This might be a more of a medium to long-term thing. How do we still trade? How do we make use of what we have? We have buildings, we have kitchens, we have people, we have resources. There must be something we can do. We have stocks. There must be something we can do to make this work.” You’ve got another one of my cats. He’s up and he’s up here. He just wants to play with the laptop.

William Knowles-Mofford:

So, and then I thought, “Okay, well, we can only be essential.” So you have to, you can only provide essential services, and you’re allowed to do so through mediums, like Deliveroo, Uber Eats, et cetera. And so that’s where my mind initially went. And so we moved our … we’ve got two venues, but we moved all of our operations to one venue, one venue which is on Great Eastern Street. It’s called Iron Bloom, and that’s got a commercial kitchen. So I basically designed a menu for food, delivery food and cocktails. So now we basically have a full menu under Looking Glass Cocktail Club, which does things like Wagyu beef and bone marrow burgers, mac and cheese, that kind of cool comfort food that people are looking for right now, as well as our cocktails. And I really wish I had some to hold up in front of the screen for you, but really unfortunate. I didn’t think that far ahead.

Anil Stocker:

You do takeaway cocktails with the food. Is that the-

William Knowles-Mofford:

So we have little apothecary bottles, little brown apothecary bottles with our logo on them. You can find them on our website, http://www.lookingglasslondon.co.uk. You can buy them online as well as through Deliveroo. And they are little apothecary bottles, come with a nice label on it saying what they are, the ABV, et cetera. And you get your premixed old fashioned, Negroni bespoken house designs all bottled for you. You don’t have to do anything to them. You don’t even have to mix them with ice, because they’re already diluted. What I mean by that is when you usually get a nice cocktail that’s stirred in the glass, the ice melts ever so slightly and gives you that sort of round-flavoured drink. We’ve sort of incorporated that within the bottle for you. So you can literally take it out of the freezer, you can pop, you can drink it straight, or you can put it in a glass if you’d like to. So yeah, we moved our business online, direct. We’re also using-

Anil Stocker:

How much … give us a sense of like how much versus your normal revenue, how much have you been able to claw back with this approach? Just give a …

William Knowles-Mofford:

30%.

Anil Stocker:

30%. Yeah. So it’s hard work.

William Knowles-Mofford:

That’s being generous. And also all my staff are furloughed. So it’s pretty much just me working on my own, but I’d say I’m doing about 30. I mean, probably only 25%. I mean, as a single person. Yes, I have the resources. But at the end of the day, I’m only one person, maybe working with a couple of friends that are helping me out. My wonderful fiancée, Melissa, she helps me out. She comes in, does stuff down when she’s not doing her very, very, very important job. So there’s a limit to how much I can do. And obviously, I mean, if I think I’m going to, if I’m going to sell this afternoon, for example, I sold 10 cocktails, and the revenue from that was 70 pounds. But you know, usually in one of my venues on a Friday night, I’d expect 70 pounds to be spent every 15 or every 10 minutes. Like-

Anil Stocker:

Wow. Wow. That’s crazy. That’s a crazy difference. So what, so talking about cash, what are you … are you getting money from the council? Did you negotiate your rent? Are you getting a Bounce Back Loan that just became available earlier this week?

William Knowles-Mofford:

Bounce Back Loan is something I’ve already applied for. And I don’t know yet. hopefully-

Anil Stocker:

You do it online through the bank, through the bank system?

William Knowles-Mofford:

So, okay. In terms of grants, and this is something that I’ve actually personally, because I chair the Shoreditch pub watch. And basically there’s a Shoreditch pub watch Dalston, but Dalston and Hackney pub watch, and I chair the Shoreditch one. I’m sort of the spokesperson for bar owners in Shoreditch. And this is an issue I’ve taken up with the night czar, mayor of London, and also the council, and they’ve all … and that actually subsequently has got to central government, a letter that I wrote, because the sort of the Hackney grants … Oh, sorry, the local council grant system hasn’t taken into account, I think, many London businesses, but particularly the night-time economy, because the 10,000 to 25,000 grant only comes into play if your rateable value, and my rateable value’s … they’re both over 100,000 pounds, which means I’m not eligible for either … for any of the grants, because the grants are only given if your rateable value is between 15 and 51,000 pounds. I don’t know a bar in Shoreditch, I don’t know of a building in Shoreditch with a rateable value of less than 70,000 pounds. So they’ve completely left this whole part of the night-time community out. So none of them, me or none of my community are getting, in terms of night-time operators, are able to apply for this grant.

Anil Stocker:

So basically is it because you’re a bar in Shoreditch that you could, can earn a certain amount of money a year, and so that means that you’re not liable to … means that you cannot claim this money.

William Knowles-Mofford:

Pretty much, pretty much. Yeah.

Anil Stocker:

Wow. Wow. You couldn’t get anything from the council.

William Knowles-Mofford:

I think effectively, they’re assuming that we’re all doing so well that we’re all … that the night-time community are rolling in cash and we, and because of our high rateable values, they’re assuming we don’t need … that we won’t require any support. But obviously, even before this lockdown, the night-time economy is not what it was a few years ago. There’s been a steady slump and there’s been a change in how people are spending money, and there’s a change in Shoreditch in general, which is mainly where we operate, and it’s not had a positive effect. And so I think, as always, I think the thinking of the government is ever so slightly behind the times. I think we’ve moved kind of quickly. And I think they’re a bit late to catch up. Though I’ll applaud them for many things they’re doing in this crisis, that’s not one of them.

Anil Stocker:

What are you going to do then if you get the Bounce Back Loan? What’s your plans then, for … I mean, when are we going to be able to come and have a drink in the bar? It seems like that’s still a long way off.

William Knowles-Mofford:

That’s a long way off. Yeah. And I think the way people enjoy themselves in an extracurricular way, in terms of drinking, night-time economy, I think that’s going to humongously change. I think it’s going to change with both eating and drinking in London. I think for one, I think social distancing is going to become … is going to, it’s certainly going to be a very prevalent thing for the next 12 months. I think people are going to be quite hardcore about it. I think if you’re going to survive, you’re going to have to adapt within that sphere. So for example, I’m going to redesign. I’m redesigning the inside of both of my premises, just in a superficial way, to … and I’m going to collaborate with a couple of artists, a couple of Shoreditch-based artists, to sort of incorporate social distancing into the aesthetic of the venue, and for lack of a better term, to make social distancing cool, but I think-

Anil Stocker:

Make it cool.

William Knowles-Mofford:

Yeah, yeah. I think if you can adapt and move into that, I think you’ll be fine. But everything will change. I mean, what I also mean by that is, I mean, the supply chain has now … they’ve cut an entire person. This whole thing has cut one whole … an entire person out of the supply chain. So I mean, restaurants that … restaurant suppliers, for example. I mean, recently we signed up to Natoora. I don’t know if you’re familiar with it. It’s an app where now you can … well, they now have an app. It’s a supplier. They supply Michelin star restaurants in London with food. They supply all the top end restaurants, and they’ve got very, very, very good produce. And for years, restaurants have convinced people that they can only get those sorts of things in restaurants, but because of the lockdown, those companies are very happy to deliver those things into the home. So they’ve taken out an entire person in the supply chain. That’s going to humongously change, because look, I’m very good at cooking. I can cook a restaurant grade meal at my house now. And lots of other people will be in that position. So I think the need to go out will diminish.

Anil Stocker:

Yes. Yes. What about you doing more? Can you do stuff, are you thinking about maybe going to your customer? They can’t come to you, but can you start going to them? Can you start putting events on in their private properties? Is that something that you would have, you would think about, or you’ve done before?

William Knowles-Mofford:

Insurance nightmare, to start with. Look, I mean, bringing the experience to that house? Absolutely. I mean, we’re already doing that, in our … so I’m also, I don’t know if you’ve heard of Nextdoor, which is a … it’s a, it started as a website. It’s now a whole online community, and you can sign up, and depending on your postcode, it connects you with just people in your area, and you can post, “Oh, has anyone seen … I’ve lost my cat,” for example, but you can also sell things on there. And I’ve been selling lots and lots and lots of cocktails on there. So I’ll sort of, on a Saturday afternoon, I’ll cycle around my area with a bag full of cocktails, delivering to everyone in the local area. So bringing that little experience, and it’s nice, because we give them the bottle, which has the cocktail in, we give them the garnish, and we give them all the necessary things to sort of make that cocktail. And I think that is a bit of bringing the experience into their home. And yes, I think people will be expanding on that in the next 12 months, because they’ll have to. Like I say, the whole scene is going to change.

Anil Stocker:

And do you … so then what’s your vision for your business now? Is that the new vision? Is it to become like that, or you’re doing that, and then you want to come back to normal in 12 months’ time?

William Knowles-Mofford:

No, I think, well, I mean, personally within 12 months, I would like, I’d like things to return to normal. Naturally, I’m … no. Okay. Scrap that. I’m not, I don’t want to go back to exactly how we were before. I think there will be some very positive changes that come out of this. I think these sort of, whenever it’s going to be, whether it be three months in the end, whether it be four months in the end, this time that we’ve spent in lockdown, this time that we spend, sort of having to think on our feet, pivot, as you said, I think that’s going to have a lot of positive elements, and we’re all going to learn a lot from this. So I think there’s sort of positive elements of this I’d like to be incorporated into a traditional nightlife sphere, because in my view, nothing beats being in sort of a bustling cocktail club, where you’ve got atmosphere, and you’ve got energy, and there’s lights, and it’s just, it feels special. And you feel, and you sort of … you get that sort of adrenaline from the environment.

I’m a very social person. I love speaking to people. I love meeting people. The world of apps and Zoom calls and technology’s all very wonderful, but nothing beats traditional bumping into people and getting to know them. And I think that’d be a real shame if that was to all go, but it has to develop. It has to move on. But I do want to see busy, bustling clubs again. Ironically, for all of this, the … I was thinking to myself, well, surely the answer to all this is to sort of have bigger venues with more … with less people in them. Ironically, we shut down our large London venues over the last 10 years. I mean, the last 10 years, I mean, yes, of course there was that enormous Fabric case, which, and then Fabric got their license back fine. But there have been, there are sort of 15 other nightclubs, and big nightclubs, 500, 600 capacity, that have closed. And sort of our venues that would have traditionally had the space to sort of party in a larger, safer environment, given social distancing, are sort of gone.

Anil Stocker:

Yeah, no, what became trendy was the smaller venue, the more intimate venue, which is now looking like it’s very far away. So really interesting, and great to hear you. I mean, really interesting to hear your story about how you’re pivoting and trying to redesign the vision for your business.

Anil Stocker View All

Co-Founder of MarketFinance

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